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Every actor will tell you that the TV pilot process is only predictable in its total and utter unpredictability. Last week, we ran a piece in which we spoke briefly to seven actors who had shot pilots that were up for possible series pickups at this week's network upfronts. Now that everything's shaken out and we know which shows are going to appear this upcoming fall, here are the extended transcripts of our discussions with Mad Men's Ben Feldman (the recently departed Ginsberg), whose A to Z will appear on NBC, and Rich Sommer (Harry Crane), whose Good Session will unfortunately not be on CBS. The two, interviewed separately, talk about the pilot dance, what it was like starting on Mad Men, and what life might be like after the show ends.
When you are on a show like Mad Men for so long, do you think about maybe wanting to avoid anything that might be similar subject matter or anything that might mean you would be typecast?Well, one thing that a show like Mad Men - I don't know if it's like this for everybody, but I've been a giant fan of the show since long before I was ever in their mind. You do a show like that for a couple of years and you're a spoiled dick. You read other scripts and you become picky, and my agents were constantly saying 'don't be a snob about this, nothing's gonna be like Mad Men, you just have to eventually go on an audition.' And I was like 'oh God, I hate this.' Quality is really the thing that sticks with you, and either you get really lucky and you find something great, or you sort of sacrifice your standards.
You weren't part of the original cast of Mad Men, so you weren't part of that pilot. But how many pilots have you actually been on and how many have you auditioned for?I think A to Z was either my sixth or seventh pilot. Maybe half of them have gone in different iterations. One was mid-season and I was a guest star, and then I became a regular on the show when it got picked up. A couple of them didn't make it to air. The first one I ever did was what moved me from New York to L.A., and it was a half-hour on the WB, that's how long ago it was. Adam Sandler was the producer, and it was about a kid who was the mayor of his own town. And I got a crash course on how Hollywood works, because when we shot it, everyone was like 'This is gonna be a huge deal; you're gonna be a star! Adam Sandler's the boss. You're gonna get all this attention.' And then it got picked up for mid-season, so everyone was like 'This'll be okay, it's fine.' And then we shot our pilot and it was fine, and we shot our second episode and it was terrible. And I watched the craft service go from sushi to old chicken. And then it got canceled after Sandler convinced the network to at least let us finish shooting the second episode, and then it was done. I feel like I learned everything about pilots from shooting my first one, but I've done a bunch.
Does having been on Mad Men increase your options or affect the kind of choices you make? People do their careers in different ways. For me, I am not entirely convinced that I have the luxury as far as what my next job is. I have a wife and kids that we all sort of exist off this very silly acting thing that I chose to do. Ideally, in a perfect world, I would love to transition to another carefully and beautifully scripted drama. Or comedy. But I'm lucky that anyone is willing to see me for anything.
How many pilots have you been in? I've been in two: Mad Men and Good Session. Mad Men was my first big TV job. I moved to New York in May of '04 and we shot the pilot in May of '06. It was my first pilot season. I only got to do that because I had had a small role in The Devil Wears Prada and that spun into a few more doors opening.
What is the difference between cable and network when it comes to pilot season?For the auditions, there's really no difference. It's a lot of the same casting directors and same folks in the room. As far as doing a pilot, I can speak only to my experience on Mad Men. We did one read-through, and from what I remember, it was the writer and director and a couple of AMC execs. It was a very small room, is my point. It was an audition and then a callback and then I was in the show. My audition for Good Session was an audition then a studio test at Warner Bros. and then a network test at CBS with all the fancy folks from CBS and Warner Bros., and then a read-through, which all of those people attended. It was a huge read-through, and it was scary and intimidating and crazy. So already I can see that's just a different sort of animal. I don't know yet how that will manifest should it go to series. It seems like more hands on deck, which could be a good or a bad thing. I don't know.
Do you remember what it was like getting the big phone call for Mad Men?I was just a guest star in the pilot, so there was no guarantee that I would move on. But when I was cast in the pilot I got the call two hours before the read through. I wasn't the first choice for Harry. I was literally sitting on my couch in my underwear watching Judge Alex. And they called and so it's like 'oh my God, yeah yeah yeah yes.' Shower, train, there. It was amazing.
We shot the show in May and it was probably about August when we heard the show was picked up. And it was maybe October when Matt Weiner called each of us personally and said, 'we want you to come to Los Angeles and do the show with us.' I got together that day in Union Square Park with Michael Gladis, who played Paul Kinsey, and Aaron Staton, who plays Ken Cosgrove. We had become fast friends from the pilot and we hung out a lot. We knew the calls were coming so we decided to meet up that day. And Michael and I proceeded to pretend to Aaron that I had not been cast in the show for about a half an hour. It was awesome. Aaron was just like, 'I feel so bad.' I was like, 'I mean, we knew that we weren't all going to make it.' Then we told him and it was great.
That's unusual. Apparently, it's only people like Matt or Joss Whedon that do the direct calls like that. Yeah, but I think it set a tone for how our relationship was going to be with Matt for the rest of the series. And he's made himself incredibly available and accessible. He's never been a figurehead; he's so deeply involved in the show and in our relationship with the show. He's synonymous with Mad Men for me.
If you weren't the first choice for Harry, who was? He was an actor who was in a play and didn't want to abandon his castmates and totally made the right call. I've described it in the past as in Texas Hold 'Em, when you're dealt a two-seven offsuit, which is the worst starting hand you can have in Hold 'Em. You fold because that's mathematically what you're supposed to do. But then somehow, three sevens come up on the flop or two twos and a seven. And it's like, 'Shit, I should have stayed in.' But no, you made the right choice. It just happened to randomly be the thing that would have been the right thing. He totally made the right choice. Mad Men was a basic cable show on a network that had no track record and there was no guarantee of him going on with the show even if it got picked up. And he chose to stick to the commitment. It just ended up being three sevens on the flop.
Did you ever meet him or talk to him about this? Michael Gladis once met him. I remember the interaction was simply, the actor said, 'I don't watch Mad Men' and Michael said, 'I don't blame you.' It makes sense to me.
If you get the call for this pilot, what would you like to do to celebrate? We probably would leave town for a minute. Frankly, the celebration has sort of happened. We were really scared about what life held after Mad Men because it's become a very comforting place to be. It's a very tight-knit group. It's very strange to think about all of us sort of being cast to the wind, and for some of us, we don't know what is next. I'm not Hamm, I'm not Lizzie, I'm not January, I'm not Christina or Slattery, those people that are clearly going to go on to the next thing. My wife and I have the same birthday, and somebody gave us a very nice bottle of champagne last year. It was Chris Lloyd, the co-creator of Modern Family. He's a bit of a wine connoisseur, and he gave us a beautiful bottle of champagne that we had been waiting for the right moment to open. And when I got the pilot, we chilled that champagne and had it. It was just breaking past that was the cause for celebration. I think we're hopeful that there will be something even if Good Session doesn't end up going. And I really, really hope it does. But if it doesn't, I feel slightly more hopeful for what's to come.
If you don't get the call, what do you hope or plan to do for the rest of the year? Just audition. I'm back in the mix, where I haven't been for a long time. I recently had to turn down a play that was a very exciting opportunity because it conflicted with Mad Men, which is about the nine billionth thing that I've had to turn down career-wise and socially, weddings and things that I've had to miss because I've been on a TV show for seven years. But that's totally a champagne problem. Golden handcuffs. It's not a thing to complain about. If Good Session doesn't end up going, I would like to see my family a little bit and maybe go on a trip. I haven't been on a vacation in a long time. I might try to utilize some of this free time, but not much, because I'd like to start auditioning again pretty quickly. Get more:upfronts 2014,mad men,rich sommer,ben feldman,a to z Photos: Courtesy; Justina Mintz/AMC; Michael Yarish/AMC
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Every actor will tell you that the TV pilot process is only predictable in its total and utter unpredictability. Last week, we ran a piece in which we spoke briefly to seven actors who had shot pilots that were up for possible series pickups at this week's network upfronts. Now that everything's shaken out and we know which shows are going to appear this upcoming fall, here are the extended transcripts of our discussions with Mad Men's Ben Feldman (the recently departed Ginsberg), whose A to Z will appear on NBC, and Rich Sommer (Harry Crane), whose Good Session will unfortunately not be on CBS. The two, interviewed separately, talk about the pilot dance, what it was like starting on Mad Men, and what life might be like after the show ends.
When you are on a show like Mad Men for so long, do you think about maybe wanting to avoid anything that might be similar subject matter or anything that might mean you would be typecast?Well, one thing that a show like Mad Men - I don't know if it's like this for everybody, but I've been a giant fan of the show since long before I was ever in their mind. You do a show like that for a couple of years and you're a spoiled dick. You read other scripts and you become picky, and my agents were constantly saying 'don't be a snob about this, nothing's gonna be like Mad Men, you just have to eventually go on an audition.' And I was like 'oh God, I hate this.' Quality is really the thing that sticks with you, and either you get really lucky and you find something great, or you sort of sacrifice your standards.
You weren't part of the original cast of Mad Men, so you weren't part of that pilot. But how many pilots have you actually been on and how many have you auditioned for?I think A to Z was either my sixth or seventh pilot. Maybe half of them have gone in different iterations. One was mid-season and I was a guest star, and then I became a regular on the show when it got picked up. A couple of them didn't make it to air. The first one I ever did was what moved me from New York to L.A., and it was a half-hour on the WB, that's how long ago it was. Adam Sandler was the producer, and it was about a kid who was the mayor of his own town. And I got a crash course on how Hollywood works, because when we shot it, everyone was like 'This is gonna be a huge deal; you're gonna be a star! Adam Sandler's the boss. You're gonna get all this attention.' And then it got picked up for mid-season, so everyone was like 'This'll be okay, it's fine.' And then we shot our pilot and it was fine, and we shot our second episode and it was terrible. And I watched the craft service go from sushi to old chicken. And then it got canceled after Sandler convinced the network to at least let us finish shooting the second episode, and then it was done. I feel like I learned everything about pilots from shooting my first one, but I've done a bunch.
Does having been on Mad Men increase your options or affect the kind of choices you make? People do their careers in different ways. For me, I am not entirely convinced that I have the luxury as far as what my next job is. I have a wife and kids that we all sort of exist off this very silly acting thing that I chose to do. Ideally, in a perfect world, I would love to transition to another carefully and beautifully scripted drama. Or comedy. But I'm lucky that anyone is willing to see me for anything.
How many pilots have you been in? I've been in two: Mad Men and Good Session. Mad Men was my first big TV job. I moved to New York in May of '04 and we shot the pilot in May of '06. It was my first pilot season. I only got to do that because I had had a small role in The Devil Wears Prada and that spun into a few more doors opening.
What is the difference between cable and network when it comes to pilot season?For the auditions, there's really no difference. It's a lot of the same casting directors and same folks in the room. As far as doing a pilot, I can speak only to my experience on Mad Men. We did one read-through, and from what I remember, it was the writer and director and a couple of AMC execs. It was a very small room, is my point. It was an audition and then a callback and then I was in the show. My audition for Good Session was an audition then a studio test at Warner Bros. and then a network test at CBS with all the fancy folks from CBS and Warner Bros., and then a read-through, which all of those people attended. It was a huge read-through, and it was scary and intimidating and crazy. So already I can see that's just a different sort of animal. I don't know yet how that will manifest should it go to series. It seems like more hands on deck, which could be a good or a bad thing. I don't know.
Do you remember what it was like getting the big phone call for Mad Men?I was just a guest star in the pilot, so there was no guarantee that I would move on. But when I was cast in the pilot I got the call two hours before the read through. I wasn't the first choice for Harry. I was literally sitting on my couch in my underwear watching Judge Alex. And they called and so it's like 'oh my God, yeah yeah yeah yes.' Shower, train, there. It was amazing.
We shot the show in May and it was probably about August when we heard the show was picked up. And it was maybe October when Matt Weiner called each of us personally and said, 'we want you to come to Los Angeles and do the show with us.' I got together that day in Union Square Park with Michael Gladis, who played Paul Kinsey, and Aaron Staton, who plays Ken Cosgrove. We had become fast friends from the pilot and we hung out a lot. We knew the calls were coming so we decided to meet up that day. And Michael and I proceeded to pretend to Aaron that I had not been cast in the show for about a half an hour. It was awesome. Aaron was just like, 'I feel so bad.' I was like, 'I mean, we knew that we weren't all going to make it.' Then we told him and it was great.
That's unusual. Apparently, it's only people like Matt or Joss Whedon that do the direct calls like that. Yeah, but I think it set a tone for how our relationship was going to be with Matt for the rest of the series. And he's made himself incredibly available and accessible. He's never been a figurehead; he's so deeply involved in the show and in our relationship with the show. He's synonymous with Mad Men for me.
If you weren't the first choice for Harry, who was? He was an actor who was in a play and didn't want to abandon his castmates and totally made the right call. I've described it in the past as in Texas Hold 'Em, when you're dealt a two-seven offsuit, which is the worst starting hand you can have in Hold 'Em. You fold because that's mathematically what you're supposed to do. But then somehow, three sevens come up on the flop or two twos and a seven. And it's like, 'Shit, I should have stayed in.' But no, you made the right choice. It just happened to randomly be the thing that would have been the right thing. He totally made the right choice. Mad Men was a basic cable show on a network that had no track record and there was no guarantee of him going on with the show even if it got picked up. And he chose to stick to the commitment. It just ended up being three sevens on the flop.
Did you ever meet him or talk to him about this? Michael Gladis once met him. I remember the interaction was simply, the actor said, 'I don't watch Mad Men' and Michael said, 'I don't blame you.' It makes sense to me.
If you get the call for this pilot, what would you like to do to celebrate? We probably would leave town for a minute. Frankly, the celebration has sort of happened. We were really scared about what life held after Mad Men because it's become a very comforting place to be. It's a very tight-knit group. It's very strange to think about all of us sort of being cast to the wind, and for some of us, we don't know what is next. I'm not Hamm, I'm not Lizzie, I'm not January, I'm not Christina or Slattery, those people that are clearly going to go on to the next thing. My wife and I have the same birthday, and somebody gave us a very nice bottle of champagne last year. It was Chris Lloyd, the co-creator of Modern Family. He's a bit of a wine connoisseur, and he gave us a beautiful bottle of champagne that we had been waiting for the right moment to open. And when I got the pilot, we chilled that champagne and had it. It was just breaking past that was the cause for celebration. I think we're hopeful that there will be something even if Good Session doesn't end up going. And I really, really hope it does. But if it doesn't, I feel slightly more hopeful for what's to come.
If you don't get the call, what do you hope or plan to do for the rest of the year? Just audition. I'm back in the mix, where I haven't been for a long time. I recently had to turn down a play that was a very exciting opportunity because it conflicted with Mad Men, which is about the nine billionth thing that I've had to turn down career-wise and socially, weddings and things that I've had to miss because I've been on a TV show for seven years. But that's totally a champagne problem. Golden handcuffs. It's not a thing to complain about. If Good Session doesn't end up going, I would like to see my family a little bit and maybe go on a trip. I haven't been on a vacation in a long time. I might try to utilize some of this free time, but not much, because I'd like to start auditioning again pretty quickly. Get more:upfronts 2014,mad men,rich sommer,ben feldman,a to z Photos: Courtesy; Justina Mintz/AMC; Michael Yarish/AMC
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